tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6903316070344664352.post1217536296543809500..comments2024-03-21T07:21:10.901-04:00Comments on The Lord Geekington: Cryptozoological Case File #0003 - The Solimões River... ThingCameron McCormickhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08521083680718243221noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6903316070344664352.post-77196910468536190612014-02-12T04:33:13.333-05:002014-02-12T04:33:13.333-05:00Though I could have gotten ahead of myself back th...Though I could have gotten ahead of myself back then, it seems that Carretochelyidae were also present in South America and that one specimen of the modern genus had a Scl of 1 meter though I cannot find again where I read this on the Net :<br /><br />http://www.discoverlife.org/mp/20q?search=Carettochelyidae&guide=Turtles&flags=col3:Bosnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6903316070344664352.post-39030670069802606842010-11-03T11:01:40.346-04:002010-11-03T11:01:40.346-04:00Moreover, for instance, a 2 m carapace-length rela...<i>Moreover, for instance, a 2 m carapace-length related turtle is rather probable to me.</i><br /><br />As far as I can tell - and it's difficult since antipodal field studies unfortunately use Curved Carapace Length as a measurement - modern <i>Carettochelys</i> is about the same size as the largest fossil carettochelyids. The only freshwater turtles that apparently had and have (respectively) reached an SCL of 2 meters are <i>Drazinderetes</i> and <i>Pelochelys cantorii</i> - both are softshells and a good portion of that length is taken up by a carapacial rim.Cameron McCormickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08521083680718243221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6903316070344664352.post-77799058363278288942010-11-03T06:37:46.090-04:002010-11-03T06:37:46.090-04:00To me this encounter has really occured, but I wil...To me this encounter has really occured, but I will be less partial than before about its identification : it could be either an Elephant seal or a new species of turtle, it's a 50/50 case.Krimegnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6903316070344664352.post-65707643791507394822010-11-03T04:47:10.016-04:002010-11-03T04:47:10.016-04:00Well... the lack of fossil evidence in South Ameri...Well... the lack of fossil evidence in South America is working against me, but I guess it is only a matter of time before something relevant will be discovered. Besides, Pig-nosed turtle are known to occur in very remote locations and have a patchy distribution(at least in Queensland). Moreover, <i>for instance</i>, a 2 m carapace-length related turtle is rather probable to me.<br /><br />For my part, I will consider this report as a <b>temporary</b> hoax.Krimegnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6903316070344664352.post-47596802076186290722010-11-02T18:28:55.942-04:002010-11-02T18:28:55.942-04:00I am assuming the Carretochelyid hypothesis becaus...<i>I am assuming the Carretochelyid hypothesis because it's the only extant freshwater turtle <br />family with true fore clawed flippers instead of webbed fore legs.</i><br /><br />Softshells have <a href="http://www.californiaherps.com/turtles/images/asemoryiimp405cu.jpg" rel="nofollow">flipper-like limbs</a>, but unexpectedly their construction (and function) is very different from <i>Carettochelys</i>. <br /><br />Delfino, M., Fritz, U., & Sanchez-Villagra, M. (2010) Evolutionary and developmental aspects of phalangeal formula variation in pig-nose and soft-shelled turtles<br />(Carettochelyidae and Trionychidae). Organisms Diversity & Evolution 10, 69-79. <a href="http://www.springerlink.com/content/214n77462n74543p/fulltext.pdf" rel="nofollow">Available</a><br /><br />Of course, depending on how literally the account is taken, even something like a <a href="http://www.honoluluzoo.org/images/matamata_turtle.jpg" rel="nofollow">matamata</a> can be interpreted as having 'flippers'.<br /><br /><br /><i>I just don't know about other large <b>extinct</b> freshwater species of another family.</i><br /><br />Emphasis mine - why the need for resurrection?<br /><br /><br /><i>The differences between this critter and Caretttochelys may be interpreted by the same phenomenon that occurs between the two living species of gharials, whiches belong to same family afterall.</i><br /><br />I don't understand, there aren't enough given traits in the dubious sighting to be making a hypothesis like this.<br /><br /><br /><i>And as I said before as Anonymous you can trace on a map a direct line parallel to the Equator which connects the points were Carretochelyid may/were/are lastly known to occur in the Southern hemisphere.</i><br /><br />I already discussed the southwards trend in Carettochelyids. Why would they survive in South America (assuming they ever there) and yet go extinct in Africa and most of Asia?<br /><br /><br />---<br /><br />When dealing with anecdotal reports, the conclusions that can be made should be directly related with the quality of information. For a report like this - singular, strange, novelistic in style - it is almost certainly a hoax. While there is a potential natural explanation with few logical 'leaps' (elephant seal, occasionally in the region and in river systems), it would really be best to have additional reports before making conclusions about seal distributions. And to conclude that it is a prehistoric survivor... there would have to be lots of consistent and better quality reports that actually specify that the animal was a turtle.Cameron McCormickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08521083680718243221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6903316070344664352.post-11904641359663108182010-11-02T09:28:26.717-04:002010-11-02T09:28:26.717-04:00By including the cryptid's location of course....By including the cryptid's location of course.Krimegnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6903316070344664352.post-67889586881369211312010-11-02T09:22:51.884-04:002010-11-02T09:22:51.884-04:00And as I said before as Anonymous you can trace on...And as I said before as Anonymous you can trace on a map a direct line parallel to the Equator which connects the points were Carretochelyid may/were/are lastly known to occur in the Southern hemisphere.Krimegnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6903316070344664352.post-84415872552954537182010-11-02T08:06:42.944-04:002010-11-02T08:06:42.944-04:00False gharial :
http://www.iucncsg.org/ph1/module...False gharial :<br /><br /><a rel="nofollow">http://www.iucncsg.org/ph1/modules/Publications/ActionPlan3/ap2010_22.html</a>Krimegnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6903316070344664352.post-90033807134196562572010-11-02T05:41:44.683-04:002010-11-02T05:41:44.683-04:00Ok, my apologies to Darren Naish.
I am assuming t...Ok, my apologies to Darren Naish.<br /><br />I am assuming the Carretochelyid hypothesis because it's the only extant freshwater turtle <br />family with true fore clawed flippers instead of webbed fore legs.I just don't know about other large extinct freshwater species of another family. This web page says Carettochelyid turtles are in fact more closely related to softshells than marine turtles :<br /><br /><a rel="nofollow">http://www.chelodina.com/10.htm</a>,Google.<br /><br />The differences between this critter and <i>Caretttochelys</i> may be interpreted by the same phenomenon that occurs between the two living species of gharials, whiches belong to same family afterall.Krimegnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6903316070344664352.post-1446829609197471672010-11-01T18:41:07.440-04:002010-11-01T18:41:07.440-04:00I disagree with Darren Naish when he writes that i...<i>I disagree with Darren Naish when he writes that it is anachronistic to interpret cryptids as late-surviving fossils. This stance should be more nuanced, especially for reptiles. There is among this group a higher proportion of species considered as living fossils with almost unchanged body than either among birds or mammals.</i><br /><br />Quite the opposite, in fact, he argues that <i>because</i> some groups are morphologically conservative, speculation regarding highly derived ancestors is thus highly implausible.<br /><br />---<br /><br />Carettochelyid biogeography suggests they started off in the Cretaceous of central Asia, expanded to the Northern Hemisphere in the Eocene, moved southwards to Africa and Australia in the Miocene, and subsequently only survived in PNG/Australia. <br /><br />Joyce, W., Klein, N., & Mors, T. (2004) Carettochelyine Turtle from the Neogene of Europe. Copeia 2004 (2), 406-411. <a href="http://www.ifg.uni-tuebingen.de/departments/bio_pal/biogeology/group/joyce/papers/Joyce_Klein_Moers_2004_Miocene_Carettochelyidae.pdf" rel="nofollow">available</a>.<br /><br />It could be possible that some carettochelyids made it to South America in the Eocene-Miocene (I have not found references) BUT for them to have outlasted almost all other members of the clade completely unnoticed in the fossil record and by competent observers is, to put it lightly, ludicrous.<br /><br />I'm very confused as to how you were able to decide upon something as specific as a carettochelyid. While the proboscis area is wide and prominent, it looks more like a weird pig snout instead of a trunk (not that softshell and matamata are much better). Speaking of those two, they have incredibly long necks, whereas carettochelyids are at about the short-to-average side for turtles. No turtles can explain the long lumpy tail, aside from snappers and big-heads. If the grazing is assumed to be associated with the sightings (which is exceptionally tenuous) then an aquatic turtle would be out since fixed tongues only allow for consumption underwater. Of course, snapping turtles have long necks, long tails, and have been observed grazing...<br /><br /><br /><i>Elephant seal before and this former won't try to attack monkeys and is not swift enough like a turtle's extensible neck to touch them</i><br /><br />Why on earth would a carettochelyid attempt attacking monkeys in trees? <br /><br /><br /><i>and it wil be more curious about this strange creature it had never encountered before than otherwise.</i><br /><br />This indicates a hoax with a slim possibility of a very out of place animal.<br /><br /><br /><i>And this omit could also be interpreted as a literary device used by the author to dramatize this encounter, because turtles are said to be boring animals</i><br /><br />Not in the United States, land of snapping turtle horror stories.<br /><br /><br /><i>but I stil prefer the lack of enough knowledge as a hypothesis to explain this encounter.</i><br /><br />Unfortunately, then it could be argued that they saw just about anything and were too stupid to realize it.Cameron McCormickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08521083680718243221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6903316070344664352.post-8521286015005135132010-11-01T04:38:02.781-04:002010-11-01T04:38:02.781-04:00Add to the end of my previous comment :
And this...Add to the end of my previous comment : <br /><br />And this omit could also be interpreted as a literary device used by the author to dramatize this encounter, because turtles are said to be boring animals, but I stil prefer the lack of enough knowledge as a hypothesis to explain this encounter.Krimegnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6903316070344664352.post-85020666880208463672010-10-31T23:18:16.831-04:002010-10-31T23:18:16.831-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Vulturhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07144429008676962756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6903316070344664352.post-3274915492704549812010-10-31T18:13:30.395-04:002010-10-31T18:13:30.395-04:00I disagree with Darren Naish when he writes that i...I disagree with Darren Naish when he writes that it is anachronistic to interpret cryptids as late-surviving fossils. This stance should be more nuanced, especially for reptiles. There is among this group a higher proportion of species considered as living fossils with almost unchanged body than either among birds or mammals. I never heard of grazing Elephant seal before and this former won't try to attack monkeys and is not swift enough like a turtle's extensible neck to touch them, and it wil be more curious about this strange creature it had never encountered before than otherwise.<br />This cryptid stil remains to me an exaggeratedly sized report of an omnivorous Carretochelyid, and the word <i> turtle</i> was omitted by the authors likely because they had never seen one with a trunk before !Krimegnoreply@blogger.com